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ARCHIVES 2005

12/25/05

Merry Christmas and Happy Hannukah to all of you which just happen to fall on the same day this year.  

We have 2 new reviews this week:
1)  La Famiglia by the Hudson Falcons on Street Anthem Records
2)  My Black Girlfriend by the Disco Students on Yeah!Yeah!Yeah! Records
You can read the reviews by clicking on this line.

December has been a very good month starting with my daughter's college graduation.  She was raised on punk which I'm sure gave her all her smarts.

images/Grad Day Alli and Sara.JPG (72668 bytes)
Congratulations Alli (on the left) and her soon to be roommate, Sara.

Our condolences go out to the friends and family of Ralph 'Witt' Katherman, who founded the M80's and was a member of our very own Horehounds.  Too many punk deaths.  It makes me wonder if we're a cursed breed.

Special Request:  Craig Allen Rothwell, a.k.a. Spazz Attack, if you are out there somewhere, please contact me because your old best friend, Rover, a.k.a. Rose, would dearly love to reconnect with you.  willy@punk-information.com  

Don't forget to get a copy of the new Horehounds album!  See the special offer below.  26 songs total which includes 15 new tunes and the entire remixed "No Time For You" album originally released on LP only on Rockin' Bones Records. 

And the reviews just keep piling in...

The CD is fabulous.  Thanks a mill.  I love those horehounds.  The sound quality is really good too.  I was rockin' out while I jogged.
--  Tina Walden, Friend

Sounds great.  Looks great!
--  Steve Stiph, Former world's oldest teenager and original L.A. punkster

I'm having fun playing it at extremely loud volumes. I think it just sounds better that way.
--  Mario Solis,  Founder of Plastic Idol Records

Thanx SO much, they're great. I have been able to listen to about the first 10 songs so far. I like...I like it a lot. It sounds like the kind of stuff I would like to play now around the local clubs. The kids here would eat it up. I mean, titles like " Big Fuckin' Tits " and " Snatch"....you gotta love it. Some of the material, the pace and beat remind me of the Gears...remember them???? Good old school Punk. 
--  Dan Wasko, Red Army

The Horehound CD is great.
-- Torbjorn Karlsen, Coach to Olympic medalist skier

Fuckin Rocks!!!
-- Rover, Original L.A. Punk

Hey, I really like this Horehounds CD. Leave it to Wankin Stiphs to find the great rock and roll gems. yyyeeeeaaaahhhh!!!
-- James Lerie, Black Jax and Deadbeat Sinatra, among others

Your Horehounds CD came at a great time.  I was in a poop mood so I just did as instructed - ROCK OUT.
-- Bente Hassel, my cousin

So what if they're all friends of mine?  They've got great taste in music.  

horehoundscover.jpg (716219 bytes)

Special just released price:  $9 USA/Canada postage paid and $11 overseas airmail postage paid.  Paypal to willy@punk-information.com or money order payable to Willy Aadnoy and mailed to PO Box 6480   Mesa, AZ  85216   USA.  Overseas Paypal or cash only.  

Visit Wankin' Stiphs on MySpace:  www.myspace.com/wankinstiphs  

12/11/05

December will be a busy month - birthday, college graduation, visits from afar, time off work and Christmas and New Year's Eve.  Another good year for us.  I hope yours has gone as well.

12/4/05

Death sucks.  Life is what you make it.

This is the week of the 25th anniversary of deaths of John Lennon and Darby Crash.  John Lennon and the Beatles helped me make it through my childhood.  I became an obsessed fan when I was 8 years old and heard the "Meet the Beatles" album over at the house of some older kids.  My dad was an alcoholic and never paid much attention to me except when I did things I shouldn't have.  I can't even begin to count the number of times I was threatened with reform school.  However, the music of the sixties, and the Beatles in particular was my escape from real life.  I fell asleep with my transistor radio on in bed hoping that they would play a Beatles song.  I can still remember exactly where I was when I learned that John Lennon had been killed.  I had just returned from school and my wife said "John Lennon has been shot".  I turned on the TV and learned that he had died.  I cried.

And within a day of each other Darby Crash was dead.  One of the leaders of the other most important period of my life, the original L.A. punk scene.  I may not have known a lot of the punks that comprised the scene but I was there through much of it and these people were like family.  Way too many are now dead.  Darby's death was a suicide.  From that aspect, it is a coward's way to go.  The ones that suffer are the ones left behind - friends, family and fans.  I respect Darby for his contributions to the scene but I don't respect his death.

Finally,  over the last couple of weeks I have on several occasions walked past a makeshift memorial on the corner where a 15 year old local girl, Amanda Sims,  died in a car crash.  I didn't know her, but a photo of her is there at the memorial.  I couldn't possibly imagine losing one of my own children and seeing the outpouring of love for this dead girl really hits home and makes you appreciate what you have.  

Death sucks.  Life is what you make it.

11/27/05

OK, I got my review pile worked down.  This week you get the following:

1)  The Ugly Truth About Blackpool - Volume One CD by Various Artists on JSNTGM Records
2)  Gas the Punx CD by the Disrupters on Overground Records
3)  Jerk Off by the Jerks CD on Overground Records
4)  Diggy Diggy Dead CD by Various Artists on Rubble Records
5)  New Day, New Enemy E.P. split 7" by Higgins++ and Sick56 on JSNTGM Records

Click on this line to be taken to the review page.

I also managed to figure out how to create new buttons using Microsoft Paint to put the lettering on.  I woulda done it a long time ago if I just knew how!

Additionally, the L.A. punk history section has been broken up into five pages for you neanderthals that still have dial up connections.  I will also be updating and adding pictures in the coming weeks.

11/20/05

Special 18th birthday wishes go out to Lois on the 21st.  Remember, tattoos are permanent!  Here's a little P.I.D. birthday cake for you.  

Still on my laziness binge this week so I still have 5 reviews to do.  I have no excuses this next week since I'm off work, so look for those next week.

The Cardinals won a road game!  

11/13/05

I'm feeling kinda lazy this week.  Watching the first half of the Cardinals game this morning as I write this hasn't helped my mood any either.  So this week is going to be a real brief one.

I still have about 4 reviews that need to get done.  I'm on vacation for a week at the end of this week so it should get done shortly.  

Thanks to those of you that responded to last week's weekly update.  The consensus is that the Hot Topic kids these days will never understand and the punks of old didn't look for trouble but they didn't back down from it either when it presented itself.  There was plenty of violence but it was mostly directed at the punks and not vice versa.  Remember the Elk's Lodge and all the other time the LAPD decided that punks were too dangeroud to be allowed to play aggressive music?

11/6/05

I have a backlog of several reviews that I hope to get to next week.

Remember when punk used to be dangerous?  Well, if you don't, you're probably not old like me.  There was a day when punk rock and punks themselves were considered to be no better than the likes of Charlie Manson.  These punks would spit on you at the drop of a hat and kick your ass if you so much as gave them a sideways glance.  At least that's the what the media told you.  The first wave of punks were for the most part actually pretty cool people who just didn't fit in with so-called normal society and were looking for a place to call their own.  Most would tell that they hate the term "punk" which was given to the music and the look by journalists.  That term made it sound pretty threatening in and of itself.  I've known a lot of "punks" in my day and they have been some of the most artistic, intelligent and cool people you would ever want to meet.

So what happened to the danger?  Punk in the 00's has gone mainstream.  Many have gone into careers in the arts and inject punk into their projects as you can hear on movie soundtracks, television and radio.  How dangerous can such "punk" acts as Green Day be when they are hosting MTV's New Years Eve party from Time Square?  How pathetic is it when self proclaimed "punks" like Avril Lavigne say shit "I need to check out Ramones to see what all the fuss is about".  

This is not to say that there are not great bands out there.  There are more than you can imagine.  The truly great ones however are stuck so far underground with little hope of ever getting recognition beyond a small core of fanatics such as myself.  So drink a toast to those bands and those small labels that keep the underground going knowing that they are never going to make money and measure success by how minimal a loss they actually take.  These are the people that carry on the traditions of the early pioneers and add back that little slice of danger that got lost a long time ago.

10/30/05

I know that I ended the Pick of the Week a few weeks ago but the new album by the Radio Reelers, "The Next Best Thing", is just too good not to give a plug for.  This things rips like a motherfucker and then rips some more.  If you like your punk with a solid dose of rock, great songs and melodies and a searing guitar attack, this is for you.  

Going back to our theme of last week for a second, ol' George had another great week.  His supreme court nominee bowed out, the government response in Florida to Hurricane Wilma has been bad (no election this year), and one of the highest ranking members of the White House staff has been indicted for perjury, obstruction of justice and false testimony.  You go George! 

New additions this week:  
Web Zines:  GaragePunk.com The past, present, and future of garage, punk, and primitive rock’n'roll.  Podcasting Wankin' Stiphs releases.

10/23/05

So, it's been almost a year and I've bitten my tongue and not said one word about our illustrious "leader".  But, rejoice my friends, because Bush bashing is back for one glorious week!  You didn't listen last year when I warned you.  You reelected the moron to another term.  Kerry was a poor candidate but like I said, even if he was the second worst president ever, it would be an improvement.  Do I have to say I told you so?

Let's take a look back at this administration:

1)  The poor black folks in New Orleans are wiped out by a super hurricane while the prez relaxes on his ranch in Crawford.  Then he goes down for a photo op with dead bodies strewn all over the city and jokes about how he used to come to New Orleans in his younger days and get blitzed!  The rich folks in Republican voting areas of Florida that were hit by two hurricanes just prior to the election last year had no trouble getting the federal assistance when they needed it.  Hmmmm, I wonder why?

2)  Bush's brain, Karl Rove, and the Cheney's right hand man, Scooter Libby, out a CIA operative because her husband dared call them on their false evidence for going forward with the Iraq war.  Almost 2000 dead young men and women now over lies.

3)  Harriet Miers, Supreme Court nominee.  Those words alone should be enough to make anybody cringe.  Her only qualifications are that she is ultra-religious, an evangelical Christian.  This should be grounds for disqualification, not qualification.  Whatever happened to separation of church and state?  We chide the Iraqi government for leaning towards a theocracy while we try to build one ourselves?  Ol' Harriet has promised to overturn Roe v. Wade if the vote comes.  That is why she is where she is.  Let's hope saner heads prevail.

4)  The Republican "leadership" is in shambles.  Delay is indicted for money laundering, Frist is accused of insider trading and of course we have the Rove and Libby saga we've already mentioned.

Bush bashing is much too easy these days.  I suspect that many of you who voted for him may actually have questioned your decision this past year.  Three more years.  God help us all.

10/16/05

Three new reviews this week:
1) Antagonizers/Main Street Saints split CD on Street Anthem Records
2) "Basura Solamente" by After the Fight on Boner Records
3) "Nowhere Near Chicago" by the Copyrights on It's Alive Records
See the reviews by clicking on this line.

Here is the third of three installments of the Outcry fanzine downloads.  Be patient, it takes about a minute or two on a high speed connection. 

Thanks very much to Steve Stiph for permission to republish these great time capsules of the early 80's L.A. punk scene.

Outcry Fanzine reproduced for your reading pleasure: www.punk-information.com/images/outcry1.pdf 
www.punk-information.com/images/outcry2.pdf  
www.punk-information.com/images/outcry3.pdf 

Special Request:  Craig Allen Rothwell, a.k.a. Spazz Attack, if you are out there somewhere, please contact me because your old best friend, Rover, a.k.a. Rose, would dearly love to reconnect with you.  willy@punk-information.com  

Don't forget to get a copy of the new Horehounds album!  See the special offer below.  26 songs total which includes 15 new tunes and the entire remixed "No Time For You" album originally released on LP only on Rockin' Bones Records. 

Hear what others are saying about the new Horehounds CD!

Thanx SO much, they're great. I have been able to listen to about the first 10 songs so far. I like...I like it a lot. It sounds like the kind of stuff I would like to play now around the local clubs. The kids here would eat it up. I mean, titles like " Big Fuckin' Tits " and " Snatch"....you gotta love it. Some of the material, the pace and beat remind me of the Gears...remember them???? Good old school Punk. 
--  Dan Wasko, Red Army

The Horehound CD is great.
-- Torbjorn Karlsen, Coach to Olympic medalist skier

Fuckin Rocks!!!
-- Rover, Original L.A. Punk

Hey, I really like this Horehounds CD. Leave it to Wankin Stiphs to find the great rock and roll gems. yyyeeeeaaaahhhh!!!
-- James Lerie, Black Jax and Deadbeat Sinatra, among others

Your Horehounds CD came at a great time.  I was in a poop mood so I just did as instructed - ROCK OUT.
-- Bente Hassel, my cousin

So what if they're all friends of mine?  They've got great taste in music.  

New additions this week:  
Web zines:  The Dirt  Web zine by the Horehounds' very own SamboneRocknRollMotherfucker.

10/09/05

So the 70's L.A. punk shoot photo has finally been published.  It can be found in the L.A. City Beat magazine which also has an online site containing one of the photos.  here is the link the the site:  www.lacitybeat.com  and here is the link to the photo: http://www.lacitybeat.com/punk-group-shot.jpg  

Here is the second of three installments of the Outcry fanzine downloads.  Be patient, it takes about a minute or two on a high speed connection. www.punk-information.com/images/outcry2.pdf 

If you missed the first issue, you can still get it here: www.punk-information.com/images/outcry1.pdf 

Special Request:  Craig Allen Rothwell, a.k.a. Spazz Attack, if you are out there somewhere, please contact me because your old best friend, Rover, a.k.a. Rose, would dearly love to reconnect with you.  willy@punk-information.com  

Don't forget to get copy of the new Horehounds album!  See the special offer below.  26 songs total which includes 15 new tunes and the entire remixed "No Time For You" album originally released on LP only on Rockin' Bones Records. 

New additions this week:  
Scene Resources:  45 Tours de Rock Francais  Everything you ever needed to know about French Punk.
Labels:  8 Piece Records  Label supporting our troops.
Scene Resources:  Pheer   Baltimore scene resources.
Web Zines:  Pete Moss Memorial All-Night Record Shoppe  South Florida sites with a bunch of MP3's, pics and histories.

10/3/05

Just back from Vegas.  A big thank you to Rose and Ralph for salvaging what could have been a really depressing weekend.  Our visit was worth the trip alone.

Big news this week!  The release of Wankin' Stiphs third release, "Rock Out With the Horehounds".  Featuring SamboneRocknRollMotherfucker on guitar and vocals with Witt Drawls, Ash, Josh, Steve Baise and Greg Wise rounding out the line ups.  These guys have a resume that is a veritable who's who of punk rock'n'roll and garage from the last 15 years.   Bands that these guys have played in include the Devil Dogs, Vikings, Big Bobby & the Nightcaps, Strap-Ons, M-80's, Buzzoven, Dirty Fingers, Shunts, Candy Snatchers, Adam West, Thee Apostles and more, more, more....

26 songs total which includes 15 new tunes and the entire remixed "No Time For You" album originally released on LP only on Rockin' Bones Records. 

horehoundscover.jpg (716219 bytes)

Special just released price:  $9 USA/Canada postage paid and $11 overseas airmail postage paid.  Paypal to willy@punk-information.com or money order payable to Willy Aadnoy and mailed to PO Box 6480   Mesa, AZ  85216   USA.  Overseas Paypal or cash only.

9/25/05

Some quick administrative stuff first.  Real life (work) imposed on my fun life (this web site) last week so I missed last week's update.  A couple of 20+ hour work days will throw you off your game a bit.  

We have 4 new music reviews this week:
   1.  "Naysayers and Yesmen/Laugh Now Cry Later" by Reno Divorce
   2.  "...Is Still Murder" by The System
   3.  "Get Smart EP" by the Underhills
   4.  "Erectospective" by Kill the Hippies
You can read the reviews by clicking this line.

Now on to the meat:

It is with great sorrow that we bid farewell to Mario as a contributor to the P.I.D.  Mario had been providing his informed commentary to the site since April 28 of 2002, nearly 3 ½ years!  Now, he didn’t want me to write up a tribute to him but how could I not?  

There is probably no one I have ever known that I have learned more about punk from than Mario and he’s just a baby in his mid 20’s.  I have appreciated his contributions to the site these last few years and we have had the opportunity to get together on several occasions to go record shopping or just listen to tunes together.

Mario and I actually “met” on a punk message board.  He posted an item about how much he admired Hostage Records.  I replied that “Oh, no. Don’t tell everyone about Hostage until I’ve managed to collect all the items I wanted from the label”.  Mario replied that he hadn’t meant to incite some “collector scum alert”.  I took offense to being labeled “collector scum” and called him on it.  Anyway, we’ve been friends for several years now and I always remind him of the time he called me “collector scum”.

We seldom agree as to the merits of a lot of bands (Coachwhips. Cough. Cough) and argue about things like song lengths, how much to pay for an item and Interpunk but I have great admiration for what he is doing and his dedication to the punk arts.  So what is he doing?  He helps set direction for KDVS radio station in Davis , CA for their punk department and also DJ’s on the air.  He also runs Plastic Idol Records (which was named as a result of listening to a 7” by the Plastic Idols at my house) and has put out some excellent releases and has more in the hopper.  His concentration is on 7” records and anyone who knows anything about limited vinyl pressings knows that you have to do it for the love of the music because there’s no money to be had.  Between the radio station and the record label, not mention a full time job, Mario has way too much on his plate to worry about sending me updates every week.

You have not heard the last from Mario.  I expect those Plastic Idol Records to be spinning one lots of turntables in the years to come.

Immediate casualties of the change are the Pick of the Week and monthly Top Ten/Playlist lists.  Those were originally added to give Mario a means to make a weekly contribution.

These are my plan over the remainder of 2005 and into 2006:  I want to update my L.A. punk history section with additional information I have received since publishing it.  I need to scan and post the remaining two issues of Steve Stiph's great Outcry fanzine.  I need to get my buttons up to date since I lost the software I was using for that when my machine crashed last year.  We also have a new Wankin' Stiphs release (Rock Out With the Horehounds) which is coming out any day now which needs to be promoted.  And 2006 will dedicated to the discographies.  If I do one letter every 2 weeks, it'll take exactly a year to update it properly.

Lots to do.....

9/11/05

After spending most of the last few days flat on my back with and upper respiratory tract infection, my doctor says get lots of rest so this week's update will be fairly short.

A little housekeeping first - I have about 4 reviews that need to get done and they will.  Have patience.

In keeping with our theme of a summer long tribute to L.A. punk, I have a few tidbits.

First, I still have no information on the posting of the photo(s) from Gary Leonard's shoot last weekend.  I'm sure someone will let me know when it's available.

Second, the response to the L.A. punk story I posted has been overwhelming and we have managed to reunite several old friends along the way.  We even make connections through unusual sources (a friend of a friend mentioned that they knew you..., etc.).  I heard directly from Jay Lansford (Simpletones), Robbie Fields (a.k.a. Posh Boy), Terry Graham (Bags) and Tracy Lea (Castration Squad) this week.  Jay emigrated to Germany and plays in a great band called Gigantor that have just released their 7th album.  Terry Graham is working on a punk book of his own called "Punk Like Me" which should be out later this year.  Robbie, of course, started Posh Boy records way back when and has released some of the best of L.A.'s early bands.  You can still read the story by clicking here:  L.A. Punk  I will be doing some significant revisions in the near future and adding photos.

Third, here is a more comprehensive list of the attendees at last week's photo shoot (new additions in green).

Rikk Agnew - Adolescents
Alice Bag - Bags
Kip Brown - Shock
Dinah Cancer - 45 Grave
Chazz - Masque/Backstage Pass
Brandon Cruz - Dr. No/"Courtship of Eddie's Father" TV Show
Marina Del Rey - Backstage Pass
Lisa Fancher - Frontier Records founder
Pleasant Gehman - Screamin' Sirens
Brian Grillo
Helen Killer - member of the Plunger Sisters
Jenny Lens - photographer
Paul Lesperance - Shock
Keith Morris - Black Flag/Circle Jerks
Nicole Panter - Germs manager
Kira Roessler - Black Flag
Paul Roessler - Screamers
Rover - first Go-Go's roadie
Jane Wiedlin - Go-Go's

This turned out a lot longer than I expected so one final thought.  This is my favorite day of the year.  The day you can dream that your team is going to the Super Bowl.  Yeah, yeah, I know.  I'm a Cardinals fan.  When have they won anything?  Well, the same could be said for the Boston Red Sox last year so for one day, hope springs eternal.  (Post-game analysis.  Did I say how much I hate the first day of football season?  When all your dreams of a decent season are dashed by missed tackles, lousy defense, lousy offense and lousy special teams.  The Cardinals suck.  Again.  Long season to come.  Fuck!)

And lest we forget, it is 9/11 so we send another shout out to Bully's guitarist, Johnny Heffernan, who as a firefighter in New York, gave his life 4 years ago.  He is a true punk hero.

Rock'n'Roll

Willy

Mario's Pick of the Week

Tune in next week for an important announcement.


Willy's Pick of the Week

Los Aarones "Hit the Streets" CD-EP (AMP)

6 songs of Ramones influenced pop pleasure from these Norwegians.  With song names like "Rocky Beach", "I Just Wanna Be Your Boyfriend" and "Teenage Ramone", it's not hard to see where the influences come from.  They have an unpolished quality to their tunes that I think adds to the appeal.  It's not all downstrokes either, they also manage to throw a lead or two.  As catchy as you would expect from the genre.

9/5/05

What a great weekend!

Friday, September 2nd:

I drove the six hours from Phoenix to Hollywood to attend the Divas of Death show featuring Castration Squad, 45 Grave, Voodoo Church and Eva O.  I had the great privilege of being escorted by three lovely young ladies - Rose, Lois and Frances.  Rose, of course, is first wave L.A. punk icon, Rover, and Lois and Frances are two of her daughters.  Rose has so many stories about her time on the scene.  She was very close to Darby Crash and has the Germs burn administered by Darby himself.

Castration Squad were great with Dinah Cancer on vocals replacing the late Shannon and Alice Bag on keyboards.  During one tune about death, they displayed slides showing the photos of many of the first wave of L.A. punks that are no longer with us.  It gave me chills.

45 Grave were also very good.  Most of the goth rock bands came along shortly after I left the scene in early 1980 so this was my first exposure to them.  It's not a style that I normally go for but I did have a good time.  Voodoo Church were also very good.

Eva O, on the other hand, really left me cold.  Maybe that was the point.  Eva's claim to fame is that she is Rozz Williams widow and she plays up the death aspects of her persona to excruciating levels.  We ended up leaving before the set was over because it was just a little too hard to take.

Notable also from the show was meeting Michele Flipside and Greg from Artifix Records for the first time.  James Lerie, of Black Jax fame was also present and I was really surprised when I ran into my nephew, Joe.  

Most of the reason I went this weekend wasn't really music related but more so to hang out with old friends and new friends alike.  In that regard, it succeeded beyond expectations.

Saturday September 3rd:

I took my usual L.A. visit opportunity to visit one the world's great record stores, Vinyl Solution in Huntington Beach.  I managed to pick up a good handful of vinyl for the collection.

The evening took me back to Hollywood and the Echo Club in Echo Park.  I've been sending a lot of disposable income to Tom at Dead Beat Records in exchange for records and CD's and so I decided I might like to meet the guy and we decided to go this show.  The Red Onions played first and are a group of Hispanic punkers belting out some garagey sounding tunes.  Headlining was T Model Ford who I would guess is probably in his 70's.  He played Mississippi blues while playing guitar and one other person played drums.  He was awe inspiring to watch, never missing a note even when a group of young ladies came up on stage and danced around him and pawed him a bit while he was playing.  He looked to have enjoyed the attention however.

One other interesting thing that happened while I was outside the club waiting for Tom was seeing a young lady standing on the nearby corner hitchhiking.  I didn't think anything of it and was kind of pacing back and forth in front of the club when I look back and she's standing there hitchhiking topless.  As I moved a little closer, off came the bottoms and she's standing totally nude on a corner of Sunset Blvd. hitchhiking.  There was a guy snapping pictures of her the whole while and a blanket was quickly wrapped around her after a few shots so I'm sure it was a staged photo shoot.

While at the club, Adam of the Radio Reelers showed up with his twin brother Aaron.  Tom is putting out their next album on Dead Beat Records.  So they asked me if I wanted to join them for a little bar hopping and since I didn't have anywhere else to go, we headed down the street to the Short Stop bar.  I guess it's a pretty popular watering hole because there were a ton of people there.  We somehow lost Tom in transition to the bar but it was an interesting time seeing these two guys work the bar scene while we had several beers.  Just a side note, if you aren't familiar with the Radio Reelers, you should be.

Sunday September 4th:

Sunday was the day of the big photo shoot at Barnsdall Park.  I didn't know what to expect because of the confusion regarding invitation vs. non-invitation.  I was at the very least going to use the opportunity to meet old and new friends alike.  This is a list of attendees that I am aware of and I'll use the familiar nicknames where I know their "real" names.

Alice Bag - Bags
Kip Brown - Shock
Dinah Cancer - 45 Grave
Marina Del Rey - Backstage Pass
Lisa Fancher - Frontier Records founder
Brian Grillo
Jenny Lens - photographer
Paul Lesperance - Shock
Keith Morris - Black Flag/Circle Jerks
Nicole Panter - Germs manager
Kira Roessler - Black Flag
Paul Roessler - Screamers
Rover - first Go-Go's roadie
Jane Wiedlin - Go-Go's

Everybody was included in the shoot that felt they belonged there.  I would say there were probably about 50 people so I will expand the list as I know more and hopefully have a link to the photo when it gets published.

The networking amongst several of us over the last year resulted in a larger turnout than I think would have otherwise shown up.  Rover told me about the event and I in turn passed the information on to Steve Reina of Shock who in turn got Paul and Kip of Shock to attend.  Even though I had released the Shock CD a couple of years ago, I had never met Paul and Kip formally.  That was a highlight.  I have been in pretty regular contact with Jenny Lens for awhile now so meeting her was another major highlight.  Now, I'm sure we crossed paths so many times in '76-'80 but we never really knew each other then.  Meeting Lisa Fancher who I have emailed with a bit in recent weeks was great too.

All in all, a punk rock weekend of epic proportions.  One I'm extremely thrilled to have been a part of.  

Rock'n'Roll

Willy

Mario's Pick of the Week

Thee Fine Lines "Looking Everywhere" 7" (Licorice Tree)

Four more top-notch Headcoats/Masonics-like garage punkers from these Springfield, Missouri, kids.  This is a terrific follow-up to last year's excellent full-length, also released on Licorice Tree.   


Willy's Pick of the Week

The Chronics "Late, Lit Up & Lewd" CD (Hate)

Hate Records does it again!  This CD contains the "It's Too Late" LP released on Demolition Derby in 2002 and the "First Time, Best Time" 7" released on Rip Off in 1999.  Additionally, you get 8 more tunes rounding out this 20 song extravaganza.  This is straight on punk rock'n'roll from this Italian band. Great melodies, great guitar driven songs that will have you singing along. There's no gimmicks here, just great rock'n'roll.

Mario's top ten/playlist for August 2005  
Alkaline Trio "Crimson" CD (Vagrant)  
The Dirtbombs "If You Don't Already Have a Look" 2xCD (In The Red)  
The Intelligence "Icky Baby" LP (In The Red)  
Kill The Hippies "Erectospective" 2xCD (Rock 'n' Roll Purgatory)  
Knights of the New Crusade "My God is Alive!" LP (Screaming Apple)  
Miss Alex White and Her Red Orchestra "S/T" LP (In The Red)  
The Plastic Letters "Don't Tell Your Boyfriend" LP (Screaming Apple)  
Regulations "S/T" LP (Havoc)  
The Starvations "Gravity's a Bitch" CD (GSL)  
The Time Flys "Fly" CD (Birdman)

Willy's top ten/playlist for August 2005  
Anxieties "Black Hole in the Center of My Brain" 7" (Infringement)  
Barracudas "What You Want Is What You Get" 7" (NDN)  
Chronics "Late, Lit Up & Lewd" CD (Hate)  
The Dimestore Haloes "The Ghosts of Saturday Night" CD (Pelado/Full Breach Kicks)  
Lillingtons "Technically Unsound" CD (Clearview)  
Los Aarones "Hit the Streets" CD EP (AMP)  
Ramrods "Gimme Some Action" CD (Young Soul Rebels)  
Scumbag Roads "Bad Girl Attention" 10" LP (Swindlebra)
Twinkles "Belle Epogue" CD (Wizzard In Vinyl)  
V/A "Main Man: A Tribute to Dee Dee Ramone" CD (AMP)  

8/28/05

On September 4th, 11:00 AM, at Barnsdall's Art Park in the Los Angeles area, there will be a photo shoot that will attempt to gather all the surviving L.A. scenesters from '77-'85 for a photo shoot to document who's still around.  There seems to be a lot of confusion as to whether it's invitation only or if you can just show up and be included.  This raises two additional questions: 1) If it's invitation only, who made you God and decided who qualified?  2) If it's not by invitation, how do you gauge the legitimacy of those who show and said they were there?  I spent a lot of time documenting my own experiences within the '76-'80 L.A. scene but I sure don't expect an invitation.  What would make me less legitimate than someone who showed up in '79 and did something that would make them name worthy?

Anyway, I am showing up with no expectations of actually being in the photo.  I know several people that will be there too and I am using this more as a reunion type situation than anything else.  I am sure that I will have a great time seeing people I haven't seen in over 25 years and making friends with others that I have emailed with but don't really know beyond that.

Next week's update will be on Monday instead of Sunday due to the L.A. road trip.

Our thoughts go out to the families and friends of Stevo of the Vandals and Rock Bottom of Rock Bottom & the Spys, both of whom passed away this past week.

Exciting announcement:  Wankin' Stiphs is putting out release 3.  We are deviating from our archival recordings that were the basis for release 1 and 2.  We are proud to announce that the Horehounds second album will be released in late September to early October.  The CD will be entitled "Rock Out With the Horehounds" and features a veritable who's who of punk rock'n'roll alumni of the last ten years.  We have members of Big Bobby and the Nightcaps, the Strap-Ons,  Buzzoven, M-80's, Shunts, Dirty Fingers, Vikings, Candy Snatchers, Adam West and the Devil Dogs and more....  The CD will consist of 15 new tunes and the remixes of the entire first album released a couple of years back on Rockin' Bones.  The remixes will be the first time the tunes have been released on CD for those of you who want to download your tunes to your Ipod.  We are very excited here at Wankin' Stiphs about this great new addition to our catalog.

Rock'n'Roll

Willy

Mario's Pick of the Week

Mario will return next week


Willy's Pick of the Week

The Hitchhikers "S/T" CD (Self Produced)

Steve gave me a copy of this last weekend when he was visiting (also a Hitchhikers t-shirt).  He got both from the band for the enormous sum of $5.  If you don't think that's greatest deal you've ever heard of, you haven't heard this CD.  This things blazes hotter than a brush fire across the Arizona desert.  This is what punk rock'n'roll is all about.  13 songs of juiced up, sleazy punk rock including a cover of the Weirdo's "Life of Crime".  They put this CD in a DVD case.  I don't know why the fuck they did that, but otherwise this is a solid, essential addition to your collection.

New additions this week:  
Lots and lots of discography updates.

Web zines:   Hard Core Punk   Reviews, interviews, MP3's, videos and more....
OX Fanzine   Incredible German site with over 15,000 reviews and 1,300 interviews.  They also publish a print zine that includes a comp CD with each issue.

Mailorder:  Soundflat From the same guys that put out the OX fanzine, one of Europe's best (if not THE best) mailorder sites.

8/21/05

Been quite a busy weekend so I didn't get a chance to scan in Outcry #2.  Outcry creator, Steve Stiph, visted this weekend and we had our usual weekend filled with alcohol and lots of punk rock.  I've known Steve since we were in kindergarten together, roomed together for 2 years and discovered punk rock together in L.A. from '76-'80.  Nobody could ask for a better friend.

I heard from Ella of "Ella and the Blacks" fame this week.  I am getting more and more pieces to fit together those loose ends that have disappeared from my brain cells and I will be updating my "story" shortly to reflect the new found information.

Rock'n'Roll

Willy

Mario's Pick of the Week

The Intelligence "Icky Baby" LP (In The Red)

That the Intelligence can do no wrong is hardly a secret to the Lars Finberg faithful, of which I am a member.  "Icky Baby" is the second Intelligence full-length and the first release to feature the "new and improved" lineup that now includes a couple ex-Popular Shapes.  Anybody that has seen the band live since the addition can attest to the newfound intensity with which the group operates in a live setting.  The same can be said for "Icky Baby," which is surely one of 2005's finer LPs.


Willy's Pick of the Week

Various Artists "Main Man: A tribute to Dee Dee Ramone" CD (AMP)

31 songs of Dee Dee inspired tunes ranging from Ramones style pop punk to some harder edged punk stuff.  A fitting tribute to a punk legend.  This is not filled with Ramones covers but rather songs about Dee Dee and the Ramones.  I think that adds to the power of the release.  AMP did a similar tribute to Joey a few years back that is also an essential CD for your collections.  Can Johnny's tribute be far behind?

New additions this week:  
Lots and lots of discography updates.

Labels:  Frontier Records  Lisa Fancher good naturedly chided me for not having Frontier Records on the site.  Celebrating their 25th year, it is indeed a label not have been overlooked.  Frontier has released records by such L.A. legends as the Weirdos, Adolescents and Circle Jerks.  Better late than never.  Sorry, Lisa!!
AMP Records  AMP Records make a reappearance on the list.  I took them off when their old URL wasn't working.  This one works just fine.  Dozens of releases since '97, always excellent.

8/14/05

We have one new CD review this week:  Live from Space City by the Businessmen on Interchange Records.  Click here to view the review.

Since we are taking an extended trip down memory lane, I have a real treat for you in the coming weeks.  My friend, Steve Stiph, did a fanzine in the 1981-1982 timeframe in Southern California called Outcry.  I am publishing each issue in it's entirety which you can download (it's in pdf format).  It takes about a minute to download with a high speed connection (26 meg in size).  Here is the link to Issue 1:

www.punk-information.com/images/outcry1.pdf

There were only 3 issues total and the next two will be published over the next two updates.

I also heard from Hilda this week, another fan that says she went to many of the same shows that I did.  She should be a welcome source for updating and adding to my L.A. punk history page:  www.punk-information.com/History.htm 

This is a picture of my daugther.  She's got bigger balls than all of you:  Click here:

Rock'n'Roll

Willy

Mario's Pick of teh Week

Fury of a Thousand Zeuses "Habanero Enema" 7" (Dingus)

Everything I've heard thus far on the Dingus imprint is worth tracking down.  Dingus is a Milwaukee-based label that is run at least in part by Modern Machines bass player Dan, from whom I purchased this record while Modern Machines was in northern California on tour.  Dan and Hanson, otherwise known as Modern Machines' rhythm section, also play in Fury of a Thousand Zeuses, yet another amazing, obscure basement band from Milwaukee.  "Habanero Enema" is great "middle finger" punk rock, snotty yet tuneful, that approximates the intensity of label mates Holy Shit!, minus the blazing fast tempos.  Totally DIY, and a fine effort at that.  


Willy's Pick of the Week

M.O.T.O. "Raw Power" CD (Criminal IQ)

M.O.T.O. have dispensed with variety and do what they do best - pound out two to three minute poppy punk gems.  This Chicago quartet have been prolific (check out their band discography in the Bands section) over the years and play shows constantly.  Except for the last song, there are no ballads, just sheer "raw power".  If you haven't discovered M.O.T.O. yet, this would be a fine introduction.

New additions this week:  
Lots and lots of discography updates.

Clothing:   Ravaged Clothing  DIY punk clothing and accessories, mainly girls.
Sales and Service:  Punk Passions  Punk dating service!!  I didn't know where else to place it. 

8/7/05

Well, vacation is over and it's time to get back down to business.  A couple of milestones passed while I was out; my 25th wedding anniversary and my youngest daughter's 21st birthday.  I had a great time in Boston, New York, Dover, Philadelphia and Las Vegas. 

One really weird thing happened in Philadelphia.  I'm in a place called Monk's Cafe which just happens to greatest selection of beer I have ever seen but also the greatest tasting beer I have ever tasted.  I'm wearing my "Pleasant Screams" tour shirt from the Queers' tour of several years ago and one of the guys who works there comes up to me and starts asking me about the Queers.  He says his brother drummed for them.  It turns out he was Hugh O'Neill's brother.  Quite a coincidence that I would be wearing that shirt that day.

I also made contact with Rose (aka Rover) from my L.A. history series which you can still read here: http://www.punk-information.com/History.htm  She was interviewed for the Alice Bag site and you can read her story here: http://www.alicebag.com/roverinterview.html  She was kind enough to supply additional information for the story which I will incorporate once I get off my lazy ass and also provide details of the whereabouts of others from my story.  So more updates to follow....

I still have one review that needs to get done, a CD by the Businessmen and I have some updates that were sent in the last 3 weeks which I haven't gotten to yet.  They will be done next week.

Rock'n'Roll

Willy

Mario's Pick of the Week

The Heartattacks "Here Comes..." LP (P.Trash)

I remember thinking the Heartattacks' debut 7", released on Savage last year, was pretty damn solid, but I wasn't prepared for the greatness of their debut full-length, which is pretty damn great.  So you missed Teengenerate at this year's Dot-Dash show in New York?  Get this and it'll help ease the pain.  Three cheers for Germany's P.Trash Records!


Willy's Pick of the Week

Lillingtons "Technically Unsound" 3xCD (Clearview)

Todd over at Clearview Records has put out some of the greatest records of the last 10 years.  This collection of Lillington's stuff includes their debut album, a remixed version of their debut album, some live tracks, their first single and the split LP with Nothing Cool; 49 tracks in all.  If you are really lucky, you'll be able to get the metal box edition, autographed by the band in a limited numbered edition of 50 copies (I got number 10!).  The Lillingtons put out some of the greatest pop punk music of the late 90's.  This retrospective will remind of you of why pop punkers still drool over them.

New additions this week:  
Lots and lots of discography updates.

Mario's top ten/playlist for July 2005  

The A-Lines "You Can Touch" LP (Sympathy)  
The Bugs "S/T" CD-R (self-released)  
FM Bats "Everybody Out..Shark in the Water" 12" EP (Vinyl Dog)  
The Heartattacks "Here Comes..." LP (P.Trash)  
Icky Boyfriends "A Love Obscene" 2xCD (Menlo Park)  
Knugen Faller "Inte Som Ni" 7" (Wasted Sounds)  
The Soviettes "LP III" LP (Fat)  
Straitjacket "Modern Thieves" CD (TKO)  
Superhelicopter "Sweet, Nice, and Happy" LP (P.Trash)  
Teenage Bottlerocket "Total" CD (Red Scare)

Willy's Top Ten/Playlist for July 2005

Bonnie Parkers  "Sweaty Shirts and Bloody Fingers" CD (Be Nice To Mommy) 
Derek Lyn Plastic "Plastic Surgery" 7" (Self Produced) 
Gitogito Hustler "Gito Gito Galore" 7" (Gearhead)
Gunfight "Hell Mary" 7" (Disaster)
Hatepinks "Plastic Bag Ambitions" CD (TKO)  
Holograms "Night of 1000 Ex-Boyfriends" CD (Teenacide)  
Knugen Faller  "Inte Som Ni" 7" (Ny Vag)
New Bomb Turks "The Big Combo" LP (Dropkick) 
Onyas "Heterospective" LP (Dropkick)    
Soviettes "LP III" LP (Fat Wreck Chords)
 

7/10/05

If you missed my L.A. punk retrospective, you can still read it here:  http://www.punk-information.com/History.htm

Please check out the video clip from Alice Bag's web site of the song "Survive" being played live in Portland, OR in the late 70's.  http://alicebag.blogspot.com/ 

I am going to complete my backlog of reviews this week and then I'm taking a month off from any site updates.  I will return on August 7th.

Reviews this week:
Click here to view.

1.  "Non Fa Ridere" by the Rancidos (Self Produced)
2.  "Death, Honor and Glory Bound" by Tommy Gutless (Street Anthem)
3.  "I Told U Once" by the Broken Heroes (Street Anthem)
4.  S/T by the Weekend Warriors (Street Anthem)

Rock'n'Roll

Willy

Mario's Pick of the Week

The Four Eyes "Sweet Sounds" CD (Plan-It-X)

In the interest of full disclosure, I released the Four Eyes' debut CD, the cleverly titled "Rock & Role Playing," on Plastic Idol.  I had an opportunity to release "Sweet Sounds" but declined in order to focus on vinyl.  So am I biased?  Maybe.  But I also know a good disc when I hear it, and "Sweet Sounds" gets the nod from me.  Though there is no shortage of "hits" on full-length number two, the production is noticeably rawer courtesy of Black Dahlias drummer Jeff Melendez, who has done great work for many local bands.  Four Eyes releases are few and far between--this is only their second full-length in 10+ years--so get your "Sacto punk" fix while the gettins' good.


Willy's Pick of the Week

Soviettes "LP III" LP (Fat Wreck Chords)

Fat is actually signing some bands that I like these days.  The Epoxies and now the Soviettes from Minnepolis, MN.  This is their third LP (bet you couldn't have guessed that!).  I think it may be my favorite of the bunch so far.  Fast paced poppy songs with tons of power.  3/4 of the band is female and I am always a sucker for female vocals although there are some where Danny takes the lead.  14 songs in under half an hour.  Short, sweet and to the point.

7/3/05

If you've missed any of the series so far you can go to www.punk-information.com/History.htm to catch up.

I'm going to wrap things up this week.

JANUARY - APRIL 1980

DATE

ARTISTS

LOCATION

AMOUNT PAID

1/16/80

Silencers

Londoner

Free

1/19/80

Middle Class
Go-Go's
Dred Scott
Eddie & the Subtitles

Hong Kong Cafe

$5.50

1/25/80

Dead Boys
Rubber City Rebels

Whiskey

$5.50

2/2/80

Weirdos
Gears
Motive

Culver City Arena

$2.00

2/9/80

Top Jimmy
Gears

Blackies

$4.00

2/19/80

Eddie & the Subtitles
Cartwrights
Cheifs

Blackies

Free

4/7/80

Cheifs
Mau Maus
Reine M
Circle Jerks
Vox Pop

Leonardos

$3.00

4/10/80

Ramones
Cindy Bullens

Palladium

$8.25

1980 will bring unimaginable changes to my life and the end of my participation in the L.A. scene.  I wouldn't be the only one though. Hardcore was starting to take root, girls were no longer willing to enter the "pit" because it had become so violent, and the Hollywood vs. Beach punk wars escalated out of control to where you feared for your life if you stepped outside your turf.

January 19th was my last visit to the Hong Kong Cafe.  I suspect it was another place that came and went as a venue and then fizzled out.

I guess the most significant new act of this period that I saw was the Circle Jerks.  Keith Morris was no longer in Black Flag and had picked up a new band along the way, a band that would put out six or seven albums over the next decade.  Some call them hardcore but I think they had too much melody to be a straight on hardcore band.  They were all punk rock however.

As I look at the list I get a bit sad knowing that the L.A. scene that I had come to know and love would fizzle out in it's original incarnation over that next year.  Darby Crash committed suicide in December of '80, virtually the same day that one of my earliest heroes, John Lennon, was shot to death. 

I started dating the woman that would become my wife in February of '80 and we are still married to this day.  She wasn't punk although she came to enjoy many of the bands that I liked like the Ramones and Undertones.  Those were the only two bands she ever saw live until a few years ago when I dragged her along to see the Richmond Sluts.

I have no amusing anecdotes to share from this time period, having used them all up in the 70's.  It is a time I will always remember with extreme fondness.  I am very proud to have been a part of one of the world's pioneering punk scenes even if it was only as a fan.  It is amazing to read how many times you see someone say "The Ramones changed my life." after seeing them live or hearing their first album.  It was that way for me too.  It led me to a scene that I was a part of from the beginning and 3 years beyond that.  I have never heard anyone say anything other than it was one of the best periods of their life and one they were proud to have been a part of.  Me too.

The people that helped form the original scene were an eclectic mixture of misfits.  I think if you asked any one of them, they would tell you that they felt like they didn't belong in the "normal" world.  Punk was a place where you could be yourself and feel that you belonged to something much bigger than yourself.  

By 1980, the original cast of characters had begun to disperse and by the end of '80, most had given up.  "Live fast, die young" could describe the original scene well.  It was great while it lasted but all good things must come to an end.  I can't imagine something like this happening today.  Punk has become so commercialized and is no longer thought of as "dangerous".  That was part of the appeal.  Being part of of something that was so outside the norm.

Thanks for reading....

Here's a summary of the bands and number of times I saw them during this period.  Since this time I have seen many of these bands again after reforming such as the Dogs, Weirdos, Rubber City Rebels and Dickies.  I also saw the Ramones just about every year from '80 on up through their demise in the mid-90's.  It's still very hard to take that 3 of the 4 original Ramones are dead.  I also saw The Dogs, Pop!, Berlin Brats, Van Halen, etc.  several times prior to 1977 before I started my list so those numbers are not represented here.

One additional souvenir that I was able to get sometime in the 80's was a Johnny Ramone guitar pick.  Each year they would roll into L.A. and play a large venue like the Palladium but they would also play a "secret" show at the Whiskey or Roxy for the true fans.  I was lucky enough to see most of the secret shows too and that was where I collected my Johnny Ramone guitar pick.  I would like to also say that the fans in Phoenix who went to the final show that they would play here are bunch of idiots.  Would it be so hard to chant "Hey Ho, Let's Go!" and get one encore?  Pathetic. 

BAND

Number of Times Seen

Weirdos

19

Controllers

15

Middle Class

15

Silencers

15

Black Flag

14

Dogs

14

Bags

13

Dickies

13

Gears

11

UXA

11

Dils

10

Flyboys

10

Avengers

9

Plugz

9

X

9

Fear

8

Germs

7

Ramones

7

Red Cross

7

Zeros

7

Audio Videot

6

Go-Go's

6

Pop!

6

Screamers

6

Alley Cats

5

Dead Kennedys

5

Eddie & the Subtitles

5

Eyes

5

F-Word

5

Negative Trend

5

Gary Valentine

5

Arthur J & the Gold Cups

4

Cartwrights

4

Crowd

4

999

4

Nuns

4

Rhino 39

4

Rubber City Rebels

4

Scientists

4

Shock

4

Skulls

4

Cheifs

3

Deadbeats

3

David Johansen

3

Mau Maus

3

Mutants

3

Red Army

3

Simpletones

3

Terminals

3

Weasels

3

Wildcats

3

Agent Orange

2

Berlin Brats

2

Black Randy

2

Blondie

2

Breakaways

2

Cheap Trick

2

Clash

2

Crime

2

Cynics

2

D.O.A.

2

Damned

2

Dead Boys

2

Jam

2

Last

2

Offs

2

Quick

2

Quiet Riot

2

Real Kids

2

Rotters

2

Runaways

2

Screws

2

Shakers

2

Sham 69

2

Sleepers

2

Smart Pills

2

Mick Smiley

2

Suburban Lawns

2

Suicide Commandos

2

Rachel Sweet

2

Snuky Tate

2

391

2

Vox Pop

2

AC/DC

1

Adaptors

1

Alcoholics

1

Armed Farces

1

B-People

1

Backstage Pass

1

Nicky Beat and Friends

1

Black Hearts

1

Blow Up

1

Boyfriends

1

Brainiacs

1

Brothel Creepers

1

Cindy Bullens

1

Butt Pliers

1

Buzzcocks

1

John Cale

1

Catholic Discipline

1

Chinas Comidas

1

Circle Jerks

1

Clique

1

Consumers

1

Conitnental Miniatures

1

Johnny Cougar

1

Cramps

1

Del & the Sensations

1

Descendents

1

Dictators

1

Bo Diddley

1

Dred Scott

1

Duplicators

1

Eddie & the Hot Rods

1

Ella and the Blacks

1

Joe Ely

1

Eulogy

1

F.O.B.L.A.

1

Michael Fennelley

1

Firebrand

1

Larry Fisher

1

Flesh Eaters

1

Foreheads

1

Furys

1

Gang of Four

1

Girls

1

Heartbreakers

1

Hollywood Squares

1

Kids

1

Liars

1

Mechanics

1

Minors

1

Moon Martin

1

Motels

1

Motive

1

Motors

1

Mean Street

1

Mexican Randy

1

Milk 'N Cookies

1

Mumps

1

Neighbors

1

Nerves

1

Night

1

Opus

1

Orange

1

Others

1

Penetrators

1

Permanent Wave

1

Iggy Pop

1

Prairie Fire

1

Randoms

1

Reine M

1

Rells

1

Richie Glover Combo

1

Rock Candy

1

Rough & Ready

1

Saints

1

Satintones

1

Schizos

1

Slashers

1

Stains

1

Stratus

1

Strict Ids

1

Suburbs

1

Toasters

1

Top Jimmy

1

Total Media

1

Trouble

1

Tubeway Army

1

Tuff Darts

1

20/20

1

Urinals

1

Van Halen

1

Visitors

1

Vom

1

Voyeurs

1

Vs.

1

Wall of Voodoo

1

Waxx

1

Max Webster

1

Johanna Went

1

Wigs

1

Yesterday & Today

1

Zilch

1

Zolar X

1

Since this time, I have seen many great bands such as Social Distortion, Stiff Little Fingers, the Undertones, Jeff Dahl, Queers, Muffs, Groovie Ghoulies, etc.

The 80's weren't a particularly joyous time music wise for me because it was more of a hardcore decade and I longed for a Ramones style pop song or something with a more distinct rock beat.  The 90's and up to this day have p